Here was perhaps the Iowa’s biggest advantage. That doesn't account for the MASSIVE "pagoda" tower of the Yamato, … Most of the Shinano’s armor had already been built when the conversion was ordered and the U.S. Navy found some of it in storage after the war. I am no expert, but let me play devils advocate; larger caliber guns = larger shells = more powder = higher exit velocity = longer range. all ships consider each other enemies and want to be the only one sailing. But if both ships were considered to be nominally obsolete, why bother ? The two classes never met in battle but it’s interesting to … 0:08 (PDF Download) US Navy Carrier Aircraft vs IJN Yamato Class Battleships: 1944-45 (Duel) Read. “World War II radar, on the flip, could give you a very good range number, but unless you had a modern set, getting a decent bearing was a real bear. Battleship Deathmatch: USS Iowa vs. Russia's Kirov-Class Battlecruiser (Who Wins?) Playing next. Torpedos may have been a weak spot just like on Iowas – but Iowa did not carry many of those. williamcarter1993. The Montana-class would have retained 16-inch guns but would carry twelve of them and would be comparable in size and displacement to the Yamato. Ces bâtiments furent engagés dans les campagnes du Pacifique.C'est à bord de l'un d'entre eux, l'USS Missouri, que fut signée la capitulation du Japon mettant fin à la Seconde Guerre mondiale. And this is happening. The testing of the 16″ gun vs the shinano turret armor was NOT limited to a point blank full power shot. Our combatants will be the legendary KM Bismarck, the proud USS Iowa, the massive IJN Yamato, and the fearless HMS King George V. Load main batteries. A design model of the proposed Montana-class battleships. But optics were susceptible to bad weather and smoke. Also keep in mind, that these test shells were inert, missing the 750 lbs of high explosive that would normally be found inside them. Imagine this WW2 scenario: the IJN Yamato was closing in on a USN task force escorted by the battleship Iowa. The Iowa-class and Yamato-class battleships were the ultimate development of the battleship for the United States and the Empire of Japan. Your email address will not be published. This was the thickest armor ever made for a warship and it was speculated that the Yamato’s armor was impervious to the 16-inch shells of American battleships. The particular piece of armor tested was the 26-inch frontal armor for one of the Shinano’s 18-inch turrets. 255. at the Dahlgren test facility, ‘point blank’ for a 16″ gun was ~1000 meters .. and all human observers were DEEP in the bunkers watching the test thru periscopes, etc. The Rumor was the the second Montana class ship was to be the USS Ohio with a new 20 inch gun …. While both ships enjoyed certain advantages over each other, those advantages are so slender that luck would probably play as decisive role as firepower and armor. But when it comes to damage control, America was far ahead of Japan and … “The chances of any given shell giving us a good underwater effect is pretty low,” Parshall noted. 100% Upvoted. Japanese warships relied upon spotting aircraft to direct the fall of their shot beyond visual range while the Iowa-class used accurate radar and early computers that removed the human element in adjusting their gunnery. These ships would have been too large to pass through the Panama Canal. It’s important to note that this heavy armor only covered certain parts of the Yamato, not the entire vessel. Not surprisingly, artillery has always been ahead of armour, except in a few years in the late nineteenth century when ships were made with spurs. Yamato and Musashi, the largest and most powerfully built ships in history (although perhaps at some disadvantage relative to the American Iowas) utterly outclassed the … remade this, my other Iowa vs Yamato video kind of sucked, let me know what you think of this and and subscribe Battlewagons hurled big cannon shells at each other, not torpedoes, which is why battleships tended to be more heavily armored above the waterline. But what if they had, in a cataclysmic clash of seagoing titans? level 1. The USS Yamato (NCC-24383/NCC-71807) was a 24th century Federation Galaxy-class starship operated by Starfleet. At that distance, both the Yamato’s and Iowa’s guns could penetrate each other’s armor. That was taken into consideration, when they chose the width of the ships. The larger context of the battle—the U.S. Navy being forced to take on the German Navy—would have had serious repercussions for the Pacific theater. Go. But when it comes to damage control, America was far ahead of Japan and … Follow. The USS Wisconsin was the fourth and final Iowa-class battleship completed. A Panama Canal expansion project was started in 1939 roughly the same time the Montana-class ships were designed. Once you assume that, the ship with the most hits will win. Nonetheless, Parshall gives a slight edge to Yamato here; if both ships suffered damage to their fire control systems and had to close the range, the invulnerability of Yamato’s turrets to Iowa’s shells could prove important. This sets up a nasty scenario for her: she’ll have to advance, under the full weight of an enemy vessel’s broadside, having her “T capped” the whole time, until she’s finally in effective range. While Yamato was thickly armored everywhere, Iowa’s armor was thicker over her more vital areas. While designers considered making the Montana class faster, they decided that firepower and armor were more important. The easy answer is the Iowa-Class. © Copyright 2021 Center for the National Interest All Rights Reserved. La classe Iowa est une série de cuirassés construits pour l’US Navy durant la Seconde Guerre mondiale comportant quatre unités (six commandées initialement). hide. Yamato’s 18.1-inch guns were the largest ever mounted on a warship. It would have been the ultimate battle on the high seas: Yamato vs. Iowa. There was more than one test completed, and the other shots were with a reduced powder charge, to simulate different ranges, one of which was simulated at 30,000 yards. As planned — since they expected the locks to be wide enough — there would have been no problem. If you look at the dimensions of the two ships, they have virtually identical length, but the Yamato has a max beam almost 6m more (39 vs 33). However, the Japanese had superb optical rangefinders and night binoculars, which enabled them to surprise and decimate the U.S. Navy in night battles off Guadalcanal. “In a 1945 test, an American battleship (the North Carolina) was able to maintain a constant [fire control] solution even when performing back to back high-speed 450-degree turns, followed by back-to-back 100-degree turns,” Parshall writes. Otherwise, great article, and fun read. GENERAL COMMENTS: In the battle of the heavyweights, Iowa edges Yamato, largely because of her awesome fire-control. best. In fact, the only time battleships slugged it out, without all the small fry in the way, was when Bismarck and the German cruiser Prinz Eugen confronted the British battleship Prince of Wales and the battlecruiser Hood in the Battle of the Denmark Strait. Shattered Sword: The Untold Story of the Battle of Midway, The 5 Biggest Battleship Battles of All Time. One researcher can offer an answer, or at least a very educated guess. I agree with your predicted outcome. Even though Japanese shells were less effective than American ones, the range advantage should belong to Yamato. Prev. Based strictly on raw numbers, I would give the edge to Iowa based on her superior fire control. 479. Yamato had a displacement one-third larger than Iowa, which should confer a larger ability to absorb damage. Required fields are marked *, Author and a somewhat qualified commentator on issues of defense, intelligence, and diplomacy. The Battlefield. “But if you throw enough shells up in the air, strange things can happen. In fact, Yamato was sunk during its suicide run to Okinawa on April 7, 1945, overwhelmed by waves of U.S. carrier-based torpedo bombers. Both the IJN Yamato and Musashi were sunk in combat but there was a third vessel. Battleship Beatdown: USS Iowa and New Jersey VS IJN Yamato and Musashi. U.S. Navy photo. They were cancelled in favor of the Midway-class aircraft carriers. and we already know how that played out. The U.S. Navy realized early in the war though that these ships were obsolete before they had even been laid down and cancelled them. Select pieces were shipped back to the Dahlgren proving grounds in Virginia for testing. Granted, that doesn’t guarantee hits, but longer range has always been an acknowledged advantage in gunnery. 18-Inch shells built for the Yamato-class battleships. Of course, this scenario is hypothetical, the province of armchair admirals and war gamers. SoDak, Yamato and Richelieu are practically in a dead heat, which is surprising on the face of it, until South Dakota's and Richelieu's very respectable fire control, and excellent protection is considered. Humans.....read my words! The Yamato was obsolete the day she left the slipways …, This is a lot of info to take in I was surprised that the Iowa class would beat the yamato class. But tell that to the German warship Bismarck, which was ultimately hunted down and sunk after a 14-inch shell from the British Prince of Wales landed short, dove through the water and penetrated the German battleship below her more lightly armored waterline. When I was a kid..I was absolutely obsessed with battleships. Here Parshall lumps together several factors, such as speed and damage control. USS Iowa vs IJN Yamato *REMADE* Report. So who would have won in a ship on ship engagement? In the end, a Yamato versus Iowa duel might have been a fascinating but futile curiosity. The Yamato-class vessels were huge at 72,000 tons and carried nine 18-inch guns. While the British battleships couldn’t score a killing blow on the Bismarck, they did reduce the Bismarck to an inoperable wreck that was finally scuttled by her crew to prevent capture. The U.S. Navy asked the same question after World War II and decided to find out. 6 years ago | 44 views. Post Aug 16, 2010 #1 2010-08-16T22:56. Carriers, particularly the Essex long hull class, were the new capital ship for all intents and considerations. In addition, the main deck of the Yamato sits about 0.5m higher, but the height of the 2nd upper deck (which is generally defines the size of the superstructure volume) is well over 1m higher. (Recommended: The 5 Biggest Battleship Battles of All Time). They would have been surrounded by cruisers, destroyers and subs. 1; 2; 3; Next. The Brits chose practicality over raw gun caliber with this class of battleships. There was to be 5 Montana ships, not 4. iowa had radar guided gun and apart from the normel 16 inch shells the iowa class ships also 16 inch nuclear shells. Ok so this isn't going to be a fully … Her armor layout isn’t the most efficient, but she has a lot of armor, so it doesn’t really matter.”. Yep, Yamato would come on top in mano-a-mano confrontation. While a showdown between the Iowa-class and Yamato-class would have been impressive, the true ultimate showdown would have been between the Montana-class battleships and the Yamato-class. IOWA vs YAMATO. Is it Time to Bring Back the Battleships? Bismarck gets wrecked it is pretty much objectively worse than the other two in almost every respect. After watching too much Kantai Collection comes the battle the military historians dream about, but which never happened. Log in or sign up to leave a comment Log In Sign Up. The IJN Yamato was the lead ship of her class. 255. williamcarter1993. Battleship Dream Battle: Japan's 65,000 Ton Yamato vs. America's Iowa-Class (Who Wins?) Let me first say, that I love the Iowa class battleships. Your email address will not be published. Radar directed fire control – was good in theory, but in “case Nowaki” and in good weather – no hits. References to specific designs, models, manufacturers, and/or modifications of ships and aircraft are used only for the purpose of historical consistency and do not assume any funding or other involvement in the project on the part of the holders of trademarks. It would have been the ultimate duel of dreadnoughts. (Recommended: Is it Time to Bring Back the Battleships?). In one corner, Japan’s Yamato, weighing in at 65,000 tons, the biggest … The resulting impact penetrated and ripped the armor apart. The carriage the gun is sitting on is the same size as a standard rail car. Battle. A more powerful German Navy (or weaker Royal Navy) would have … Yamato’s nine 18-inchers could throw a 3,200-pound shell out to 26 miles, while Iowa’s nine 16-inch guns could propel a 2,700-pound shell 24 miles. ..but when I was a kid, it wasn’t about whether a ship was “better” than another. Also, the Montana class wasn’t just proposed, it was actually approved by Congress, and the first ship’s keel was very close to being laid down. I am going to assume we're using it's 1941 armament. Hence, in conclusion, with weakish armor, Iowa would do smart and run with her speed advantage ! “All optics do a very good job at determining bearing to the target, but not so good at determining range,” Parshall says. However, Yamato had poor seams between her upper and lower armor belts, which allowed water to enter when she was torpedoed by U.S. aircraft off Okinawa. Thus, the Montana was limited to a speed of 28 knots like the North Carolina and South Dakota classes. The Iowas were designed to be high-speed 32-knot battleships to act as the protection to the carrier fleet. The IJN armor was inferior in many ways, both because of impurities(dirt mostly) and because of improper tempering/hardening procedures. Marksmanship is a key consideration when trying to hit a moving target from 25 miles away, even one that is almost three football fields long. In one corner, Japan’s Yamato, weighing in at 65,000 tons, the biggest battleship in history. In 1945 the era of the battlewagon was already ending, sinking beneath the weight of swarms of aircraft. Two vessels were completed and saw active service during World War II. The Japanese vessel had 9 inches of deck armor to Iowa’s 6, and an impressive 26 inches of armor on the faces of her main gun turrets, versus just 20 inches of turret armor for Iowa. The Yamato-class vessels were huge at 72,000 tons and carried nine 18-inch guns. 6 comments. Yamato and Iowa wouldn’t have stood turret-to-turret in an arena like a pair of heavyweight boxers. For his analysis, Parshall assumes that both battleship captains would close the range to less than 23 miles. K. Kilo 2-3 New Member. USS Iowa and New Jersey -VS- IJN Yamato and Musashi. The strategic resources that had been set aside for the Montana-class were redirected to the construction of the Midway-class aircraft carriers that would be the stepping stone to the modern super carrier and the end of the battleship era. However, as Parshall points out, only America could afford to build battleships with hulls and interiors constructed entirely out of tough but light Special Treatment Steel, which meant that U.S. battleships could be smaller and lighter for an equivalent amount of protection. In the other corner, Iowa, at 45,000 tons the pride of America's World War II battleship fleet. Yamato vs. Iowa or North Carolina . “As such, hers is a sort of ‘brute force’ approach to protection. Post Aug 16, 2010 #2 2010-08-16T23:33. A fully armed shell, even at a great range would wreak havoc on that armor. Bismarck vs Yamato vs USS Iowa. The Iowa-class ships were smaller but well balanced at 52,000 tons with a heavy battery of nine 16-inch guns. Battleship Showdown: Hitler's Bismarck vs. America's Iowa-Class Battleship (Who Wins?) Chopper Greg . In fact, the only range at which Iowa can really win a fight with Kirov is within twenty miles, when the ship’s nine sixteen-inch guns can come into play. Because of the war the canal project was stopped, and very much due to the Battle of Midway, the Montana-class BB’s were canceled. NOTE: The Yamato was outfitted slightly differently over the course of the war. USS Iowa vs IJN Yamato *REMADE* Lowell Gabe. While this showed that a 16-inch shell could penetrate the Yamato’s armor, it’s unlikely that it would have done so at distance. 4 days ago. In reality, the two ships never met in battle. Nazi Germany's Battleship Bismarck vs. America's Iowa Class: Who Wins? 04-03-2015, 10:25 AM #2. Chopper Greg. But it would only take a lucky hit or two to knock out a radar, and with those powerful 18.1-inch guns, a hit from Yamato’s main battery would hurt Iowa. But be it as it, Yamato could in fact turn more tightly than the Iowa. For the purposes of our fight, I’ve selected an imaginary patch of sea in the Indian Ocean. So, the combination of decent optics plus world-class radar is way better than world-class optics plus crappy radar.”. 1/21/2019. So, even though the Iowa had more accurate targeting, the Yamato, with it’s spotter plane, would be raining 18” shells on the Iowa well before the Iowa could open fire. Here we’ll have two small islands, each 300 feet at the highest, each 5X5 miles in size, and each twenty miles apart, arranged roughly on the … Of the seven battleships Parshall analyzed, Yamato and Iowa had the best underwater armor. [I][B]Without [/B][/I]carrier support; this is a test of the finest, and last big-gun battleships ever built on Earth. Yamato vs. Iowa or North Carolina...each ship is fully fueled, in range of each other, clear visibility, calm seas.' Yamato seemingly had the edge here, with 16 inches of belt armor to Iowa’s 12 inches. Sort by . First Prev 2 of 3 Go to page. They were not in service during world war two. Instead four units of the class would have been built with two stationed on each coast. share. While both ships enjoyed certain advantages over each other, those advantages are so slender that luck would probably play as decisive role as firepower and armor. “This was a much better performance than other contemporary systems,” he continues, “and gave U.S. battleships a major tactical advantage, in that they could both shoot and maneuver, whereas their opponents could only do one or the other.”. Légendes navales : U.S.S. “Iowa’s fire control is better. But if Yamato gets lucky and gets in the first hit or two, and they’re doozies, it could very easily be game over for Iowa.”, (Recommended: The 5 Most Deadly Battleships). It would have been the ultimate duel of dreadnoughts. Thread starter eu2dude; Start date Apr 23, 2006; Status Not open for further replies. Since they couldn't match American quantity, it was Japanese navy doctrine for each warship to be more powerful than its individual U.S. counterpart. Jon Parshall, historian and author of the superb Shattered Sword: The Untold Story of the Battle of Midway has pitted the top battleships of various nations against each other at Combinedfleet.com, the go-to site for information on the Imperial Japanese Navy. The Iowa-class probably couldn’t sink the Yamato but its 16-inch shells would have wrecked the Yamato’s superstructure and rendered her equipment inoperable. Yamato had a displacement one-third larger than Iowa, which should confer a larger ability to absorb damage. Among the battleships he compares are Yamato and Iowa, based on five criteria: guns, armor, underwater protection, fire control and “tactical factors” such as speed and damage control. But when it comes to damage control, America was far ahead of Japan and other nations. The Iowa-class ships were smaller but well balanced at 52,000 tons with a heavy battery of nine 16-inch guns. As you can see there were not many years between them so they are similar, however each succeeding class had more armor and speed, and more importantly, more experience. The Yamato-class was built for a different era of warfare. Which side takes it? Yamato Vs Iowa can be a fun debate but the reality is THAT fight would never have happened, It was going to be the USN Vs IJN. Browse more videos. Omega. Given World War II fire control systems, the chance of hitting a battleship moving at 30 miles per hour from a distance of 25 miles is very small. Yet the real issue was even hitting the target in the first place. Who is the victor? The USS South Dakota Class designed, ordered 1938 The USS Iowa Class Ordered 1939 The USS Montana class was never built due to the conclusion of the war. The Nuclear shells were a much later cold war development. The Iowa-class and Yamato-class battleships were the ultimate development of the battleship for the United States and the Empire of Japan. save. This piece first appeared in War Is Boring here. As part of its quest for qualitative superiority, Japan trained its battleship crews in long-range shots to achieve such devastating underwater hits. Japanese fire control radar was poor, while American fire control radar was the best in the world. And after a while, odds are, they probably will.”. The U.S. Navy shot it point blank with a 16-inch shell. This concept was exemplified during the sinking of the German battleship Bismarck by the HMS King George and HMS Rodney in 1941. “Yamato was simply built to stand up to and utterly outclass any conceivable American or British opponent by sheer weight of gunfire and elephant-like armor,” Parshall writes. 479. The piece of armor tested by the navy is now on display at the Washington Navy Yard. Next Last. Yamato had a displacement one-third larger than Iowa, which should confer a larger ability to absorb damage. So which battleship would win? Germany was, after all, considered the primary threat, with Japan second and Italy third. Iowa enjoyed a career through World War II, Korea and was even reactivated during the 1980s. “That’s why I say there’s a lot of luck involved here,” Parshall explained. View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Spectacular Member Join Date May 2014 Posts 121. Standard U.S. Navy 16-Inch Gun. The IJN Shinano was to be the final vessel of the Yamato class but she was converted to an aircraft carrier (and subsequently sunk by a submarine). Why is a battleships’s underwater armor important? Iowa vs. Yamato, the Ultimate Battleship Showdown, The MV-22 Osprey and Statistical Impropabilities. One other main problem of the Yamato vs Iowa: target size. report. Who would have won? yamato class battleship vs iowa class تم میں بہترین وہ شخص ھے جو قرآن سیکھے اور دوسروں کو سیکھائے By / 28 دسمبر, 2020 It did show accurate main battery shooting at Samar – a hit under White Plains from 34k yards and number of straddles (remember – good shooting gives straddles, God gives hits) and armor, while considered of poor quality by .90 was still very heavy, both belt and deck. She bombarded shore targets aplenty, but never had the chance to engage an enemy battleship. Well, this is Khazan. Iowa contre Yamato et Tirpitz 5 août 2019 51907 Dans les années 1930, les superpuissances navales faisaient souvent fi des traités internationaux destinés à limiter la course aux armements, et concevaient secrètement de nouveaux cuirassés inédits. 379 People Used More Courses ›› View Course Iowa-class … The two classes never met in battle but it’s interesting to wonder which one would have won in an engagement. 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